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Well what a strange week this has been. Of course it would of been nice if the world was waiting for the smoke to rise from the chimney and an announcement made that world peace had been achieved, but instead they were waiting for the next chappie to be chosen by God who would lead the Roman Catholic Church and its 1 billion members.
So what does this mean for world peace? nothing at all, it's just another guy with a set of ideals, to which, those that does not fit into must be oppressed.
How about the cracking down and conviction of the Priests who sexually abuse children? yes good question and one which should be put to Heir Ratzinger himself.
But lets not dwell on the issues which are swept under the vatican carpet. Mr Ratzinger who was a fully paid member of Hitler's Youth has voiced his HATE against homosexuality and that is fact. So imagine if a predominantly Catholic country was to announce shortly afterwards that it approves Gay marriages!
Well it's happened. Yesterday 22 April 2005 Spain passed legislation that people of the same sex will be able to legally marry. Not only that, but they will have the same rights as heterosexual couples, including the right to adopt children. The law is expected to be finalised in approx 2-3 months.
Spain's today's thinking President Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said same-sex marriage was a characteristic of a "modern and tolerant society" and legalising gay unions was one of his campaign pledges.
So what has the vatican got to say? well they are not happy chappies to say the least, as well as condeming it, they are calling for people to voice their disgust and hatred even if it meant losing their jobs!
It was nice to see gay couples hugging each other yesterday when the news was released in Madrid, ain't it great when theirs some good news for a change.
Viva España!
It's official Spain is more liberal than Great Britain, and one of the leaders in Europe. Sangria anyone?
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Popeye and Olive Head for Spain
#1
- CHIEF PANTY
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Posted 22 April 2005 - 09:32 PM
MultiQuote#2 Guest_Anna_*
Posted 23 April 2005 - 01:34 AM
Pantyholic, on Apr 22 2005, 06:27 PM, said:
But lets not dwell on the issues which are swept under the vatican carpet. Mr Ratzinger who was a fully paid member of Hitler's Youth has voiced his HATE against homosexuality and that is fact. So imagine if a predominantly Catholic country was to announce shortly afterwards that it approves Gay marriages!
FWIW, I saw a snippet of an interview with Herr Cardinal Ratzinger on our cable Catholic channel, just after the decision came down and he renamed himself Pope Benedict XVI. While trying to downplay his reputation as a hardliner and a bulwark against change, he also acknowledged that his vision of Catholicism could easily result in a much smaller Church, at least in Europe and North America. And that he was fine with that, as he sees himself (at least in his prior office of Chief Inquisitor) as keeping Catholic doctrine and dogma "on track" or at least close to the same place it has been for centuries. Face it; nearly all religions are at heart conservative, reactionary institutions.
The viral transmission that is at least partially amplified by Church policy on condoms in Africa could also unintentionally reduce the otherwise considerable growth of Catholicism there (and perhaps in South America as well, especially, I would think, in Brazil).
While it's tempting to demonize Catholicism, I guess I ultimately take the long view -- Catholicism has been in a moral and ethical decline since it started. (This is said, by the way, by someone who considered conversion to and taking vows in Catholicism during my late teens and early 20s). The only surprising thing is how long it takes for people to appreciate this and put it out of their lives, to whatever degree they are able. I suspect the "success" in Africa and So. America has more to do with the Church's willingness to capitalize on extreme poverty as a chief aid in recruitment.
The simpler point I started out to express here is that it seems to me that there is no nation in the northern hemisphere (except maybe Italy) that can be regarded as predominantly Catholic in any really effective way.
#3
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Posted 23 April 2005 - 02:20 AM
Anna, on Apr 23 2005, 03:29 AM, said:
The simpler point I started out to express here is that it seems to me that there is no nation in the northern hemisphere (except maybe Italy) that can be regarded as predominantly Catholic in any really effective way.
Don't tell me the mafia are running the churches. No I don't know sometimes whether Churches/Religions are losing people or whether they are losing their grip on Governments, Spanish priests are naturally opposed to this ruling, but have no say in the matter, but yes even Eire not so long ago, the local priest was a person to be feared. It was expected to acknowledge him if he was to walk down the street even, touch the forelock or stand aside, when I was there approx 10 years ago now, I saw priests totally ignored. I don't know if things have changed or what the rules are now, but at that particular time it was illegal for girls/women to have abortions. So these were being carried out in the UK, big business.
As for Africa, well the way things are going with the high rate of Aids and ever increasing they will lose their flock there anyway. India is fast catching them up as regards stats, obviously this won't have any affect upon the collection boxes
but its a frightening state of affairs
#4 Guest_Anna_*
Posted 23 April 2005 - 02:37 AM
Pantyholic, on Apr 22 2005, 11:15 PM, said:
Don't tell me the mafia are running the churches.
When has it ever not run them? Or at least worked in close support?
Quote
No I don't know sometimes whether Churches/Religions are losing people or whether they are losing their grip on Governments, Spanish priests are naturally opposed to this ruling, but have no say in the matter, but yes even Eire not so long ago, the local priest was a person to be feared. It was expected to acknowledge him if he was to walk down the street even, touch the forelock or stand aside, when I was there approx 10 years ago now, I saw priests totally ignored. I don't know if things have changed or what the rules are now, but at that particular time it was illegal for girls/women to have abortions. So these were being carried out in the UK, big business.
My sense is that even in Ireland priests have become irrelevant. Also, they're becoming an endangered species, through the combined effects of arrests and inability of the Church to find fresh meat. I think it's pretty safe to say that (long term) religion (and Catholicism in particular) have lost their once iron grip on civil authorities. Think of France, for instance, where many people call themselves Catholic, but where its actual impact in practical terms is almost nil -- it may even work against itself where it tries to flex "muscle" that only exists in the collective imagination of the Church heirarchy.
I'm sure there are still some covert areas where they exert undue influence (for instance through the lay organization Opus Dei). But even there I wonder whether the bad publicity they get from such things doesn't ultimately work against them over the years?
The more we learn of history (and especially early Church history), the clearer it becomes, at least to a large number of fairly influential people -- that the Church has always been a creature of men's ambitions and an agent of the State, at least since Constantine. Looking at that, those people who continue to believe in Christ are left with almost no choice to look back to the radically different forms that Christ-worship took in the years before the Council of Nicea and the writing of the Nicene creed -- which is what I count as the first nail in the coffin of any sort of Christianity that significantly resembled Christ's own teachings.
(Wow, sorry, this is probably way too much and too heavy for here -- it's just a subject I tend to be passionate about, partly due to my own personal history with religion and Christianity in particular.)
Sincere apologies to anyone I may have offended in speaking so bluntly.
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