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being a schoolmarm
#41
Guest_Becky1000_*
Posted 16 May 2005 - 11:11 AM
[quote name='Pantyholic' date='May 15 2005, 03:46 PM']
no no no,  I have enjoyed following this thread Anna, I was just a wee bit worried that vistors who can read this topic before even becoming a member might get the impression we are sensitive to spellings etc.
Also the topic has gone off track to what you originaly posted or rather started, thats why I jumped in if you like.
So no appology accepted, or expected, so don't for christs sake let it worry you 
Hi all, well spank my pantied bum but I personally think it's shocking what the US have done to the English language - I don't know, you lend something out for a while and it comes back like this! Just remember there is no such thing as "American English" anymore than there is "English French" or any other combination!
No seriously though, if you look at the (American) changes to the English language you can see that they seem mainly to simplify the ludicrously complicated grammar and spelling that comes with formal English. I really do have sympathy for anyone trying to learn this as a second language. Maybe in the future all the world will speak English but it won't be "English English"it will be a version that everone can understand (and spell)
Love to all and will post some pics soon - nearly got caught last time!
#42
Guest_gamester_40_*
Posted 16 May 2005 - 11:49 AM
It's mildly amusing to see this thread still with life after I've been absent for a few days. I find anime's contributions very endearing. PH's pointed comments are on the ball. Aunty Annie, you shouldn't have any qualms for having taken care to research and to pen your tome of a thesis in this forum. We've gone 3 pages and that should be proof that even the most insanely mundane thoughts can engender discussion! (Maybe we're all more boring than we'd like to believe!) And pink, one day I'd like to sit you down and correct your spelling and maybe your pronunciation and diction, taking care to make sure you form your vowels properly..."you have to open your mouth wider than that, young girl!!!")
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Posted 18 May 2005 - 03:57 PM
gamester_40, on May 16 2005, 01:44 PM, said: pink, one day I'd like to sit you down and correct your spelling and maybe your pronunciation and diction, taking care to make sure you form your vowels properly..."you have to open your mouth wider than that, young girl!!!")
I'm trying to imagine the picture of GM in black gown and mortar leaning over the seated pink with cane in hand. Pink dressed in floral frock, black shoes and white ankle socks, and hair in pigtails.
Question is will pink deliberately misspell the masters highly researched words? Or will the master punish her regardless.
Tune into next weeks episode of neighbours
#44
Guest_gamester_40_*
Posted 19 May 2005 - 11:03 AM
What a perceptive statement! The astute Master can make his adept into Teacher's Pet. Of course, with the modern style of teaching that pink was careful to observe, correct spelling is hardly the point!
Pantyholic, on May 19 2005, 02:52 AM, said: I'm trying to imagine the picture of GM in black gown and mortar leaning over the seated pink with cane in hand. Pink dressed in floral frock, black shoes and white ankle socks, and hair in pigtails.
Question is will pink deliberately misspell the masters highly researched words? Or will the master punish her regardless.
Tune into next weeks episode of neighbours
#45
Guest_pinkundies1_*
Posted 22 May 2005 - 02:24 PM
Pantyholic, on May 19 2005, 02:52 AM, said: I'm trying to imagine the picture of GM in black gown and mortar leaning over the seated pink with cane in hand. Pink dressed in floral frock, black shoes and white ankle socks, and hair in pigtails.
Question is will pink deliberately misspell the masters highly researched words? Or will the master punish her regardless.
Tune into next weeks episode of neighbours
i missed this earlier.
do you know, i was always such a naughty girl at school. ah, the memories...even back in kindergarten, my twin brother and i were a tag team of terror that saw us banned from that particular kindergarten - breaking out of the playground by scaling the fence was the last straw, they could not take any more of us.
funny, it was a recurring theme throughout primary school, being banished from the class - not that i was nasty or anything (well, if one doesnt count befriending the ugly kid who was going to have a party at the roller skating rink then dumping him like a sack of shit the following monday after the party..) i was probably more mischievous than anything else.
high school, well, i was a wicked girl, looking back - i took up smoking down the back of the school bus ( they used to pack so many kids on to the bus nobody knew where the smoke was coming from), yes, who could forget the halcyon days of detention and suspension, they were great times.
this girl was incurably lazy - completely minimizing the time and effort i put into school work during and after class (but still managed to get alright marks though, graduated in the end ) - i was there to socialise, and make smart alec comments from the back of the class, not learn!
but i am not so bad these days (most of the time), took me over ten years, but finally got around to starting university
if i were to be in one of gamesters english tuition classes, i would DEFINITELY misbehave. while gamester had her back turned to me at the blackboard, i will use a hollow pen to pea- shoot a ball of saliva covered paper onto the back of her neck, and then solemnly deny it was me, even though i was the only person in the class. naturally, i would expect to be severly disciplined.
i would of course deliberately misspell words to infuriate the headmistress, and then eagerly pull my panties down and bend over the desk, awaiting punishment for my recalcitrant ways.
i would be top of the class at opening my mouth wide, though (when forming vowels, that is)
back in my high school days, the only item of femme apparel i wore to school was panties beneath my trousers, but i think i would excel this time around if my school uniform for gamesters english classes consisted of pigtails, floral frock, cute black shoes and ankle socks - maybe if i'd been born a girl and been able to dress like a girl in my school days i would not have been rebellious the way i was, but i doubt it. i would have been exactly the same, the only difference being i would have had sex with the entire school football team...and the cricket team. and my phys-ed teacher.
#46
Guest_Anna_*
Posted 24 May 2005 - 01:50 PM
pinkundies1, on May 22 2005, 11:19 AM, said: back in my high school days, the only item of femme apparel i wore to school was panties beneath my trousers, but i think i would excel this time around if my school uniform for gamesters english classes consisted of pigtails, floral frock, cute black shoes and ankle socks - maybe if i'd been born a girl and been able to dress like a girl in my school days i would not have been rebellious the way i was, but i doubt it. i would have been exactly the same, the only difference being i would have had sex with the entire school football team...and the cricket team. and my phys-ed teacher.
I wonder about this, and of course, we'll never know for sure, shall we? I've been reading a lot of women's writing, both recently but for quite a long time, and something that strikes me fairly consistently is the envy many women feel for being able to act out like this (without what seem to be serious social consequences). The question comes down to whether you would have taken the same actions as a girl if doing so seriously reduced your status among the other girls and led to the sort of nastiness that can go on when someone is identified in high school as "graceless" and a slut?
These actions (at least many would argue) probably had either a positive or neutral effect on your reputation in the guise of a male -- "Boys will be boys!" pretty much says it all. "Good girls don't -- but those who do certainly don't brag about it," seems to be the counterpoint here.
#47
Guest_pinkundies1_*
Posted 25 May 2005 - 02:28 PM
Anna, on May 25 2005, 12:45 AM, said: I wonder about this, and of course, we'll never know for sure, shall we? I've been reading a lot of women's writing, both recently but for quite a long time, and something that strikes me fairly consistently is the envy many women feel for being able to act out like this (without what seem to be serious social consequences). The question comes down to whether you would have taken the same actions as a girl if doing so seriously reduced your status among the other girls and led to the sort of nastiness that can go on when someone is identified in high school as "graceless" and a slut?
These actions (at least many would argue) probably had either a positive or neutral effect on your reputation in the guise of a male -- "Boys will be boys!" pretty much says it all. "Good girls don't -- but those who do certainly don't brag about it," seems to be the counterpoint here.
dont know how i wouldve truly behaved at highschool if i'd been born a girl, but let me tell you, anna, i dont give a fuck what people think these days.
i have already endured reduced status among peers and had to face serious social consequences for my sexuality and my crossdressing. i basically was an outcast in some respects. some people dont wanna know you, but there are those that have accepted me as i am, and we carry on friendships/ work relations just as before - except that now i feel i have nothing to hide, i can just truly be myself . Its a good feeling . i have found that some people who pre-judged me, that when they got to know me better, were suprised that they liked me as a person. when people know the personality behind the face, it think it contributes to tolerance.
there are heaps of people who dont approve of me or snigger behind my back - but i guess my point is, if they're not important to me, i just dont fucking care what some people have to say about me. i've made my choice about how i want to live my life, and thats it.
i have always been pretty determined when it comes to sex, from right back then to now. so really, while its hard to gauge how i wouldve acted in school as a girl, i don't think being a promiscous slut would be out of the realms of probability - the alienation could not be any worse than i have experienced, and i like cock, lots of them.
as for the double standards for women and men, yeah it sucks. but thats the way it is, always has been and always will be, not much that can be done to change this, unfortunately.
#48
Guest_gamester_40_*
Posted 30 May 2005 - 11:42 AM
Damn it! What about mine?
pinkundies1, on May 26 2005, 01:23 AM, said: i don't think being a promiscous slut would be out of the realms of probability ..., and i like cock, lots of them.
#49
Guest_Anna_*
Posted 31 May 2005 - 05:38 PM
pinkundies1, on May 25 2005, 11:23 AM, said: dont know how i wouldve truly behaved at highschool if i'd been born a girl, but let me tell you, anna, i dont give a fuck what people think these days.
{snip}
as for the double standards for women and men, yeah it sucks. but thats the way it is, always has been and always will be, not much that can be done to change this, unfortunately.
I keep coming back in my speculations to one of the key differences that seems to appear between M2F TS's and F2Ms. I've forgotten where the research study was published by now, though a lit search would probably bring it up quickly enough.
What was noted in this particular study was how much more socially integrated the F2Ms were on average than those M2Fs in the study. It's always possible there were huge sampling errors, but my intuition, at least, leads me to doubt they made the observations invalid. Most F2Ms (at least in presentday American culture) grew up as butches. Their biggest challenges within their own "community" tended to be with "political" lesbians who used to be more adamant in pressing for a uniform androgyny among dykes, with no recognition (except in negative terms) for the butch/femme dynamic. Maybe because of female socialization in general, though, a butch/femme "underground" persisted through much of the 70s, and re-asserted itself fairly loudly in the late 80s through the present. Also to consider, that the lesbian "community" has operated much more like a community than have gay (or str8) men have ever tended to.
There are exceptions in the gay community, and there was always some sense of sisterhood among drag queens, but even there, when asked, few DQs ever admitted (at least not in clearly gay circles) to any desire to be or become women. They tended instead to treat themselves as so many others wished to treat them, as a joke.
As such, there has never (or at least not until recently) been a place (at least not in Westernized, Christianized, Industrialized culture) where M2Fs could feel safe about speaking their true feelings, so it usually happened that M2Fs never really tended to go through any kind of social maturation (at least beyond pre-pubertal levels) until after starting transition. And even at that, those who don't readily "pass" often found (or find?) themselves beating themselves up, or withdrawing from much of social life -- or so the "literature" would have us believe.
I'm sure the reality is that there are many exceptions (particularly when you consider that for many years the ultimate goal for most M2Fs was to enter "full stealth" mode and try to live as much as possible without having their gender questioned. Post-op M2Fs tend to be hard to find for survey purposes, at least they were until a certain degree of greater openess has come in recent years)
Anyway, I'm blathering and have chores I should be doing now instead of typing this. Feel free to respond in any way your heart desires. I am interested in responses to this, though I'll probably come back to edit it a bit once posted.
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Posted 01 June 2005 - 06:33 AM
Auntie Annie,
I personally feel that if a M2F isn't able to pass without lots of surgical improvements (which are painful and very costly) they usually stop before the transition is really started and end up always wishing the out come had been different ... then they live the rest of their lives as CDers or closeted Transsexuals .. often unhappy, lonely, and with very low self-esteem ... finding they really don't fit in any where and always searching for happiness in unhealthy and usually unfulfilling ways ...
Was this fact supported by the study you read or did it even go into the real outcome for non-passable M2F TSs?
I know from many of the special friends I have made over the years (mostly online) this has been the consensus .. and my own life (sadly) has also supported this opinion.
Just my opinion not a scientifically support fact ....
Your Sissy-Sister-n-Panties from Kansas,
Michelle Jo
PS: I do know web sites like this one has helped me improve my self-esteem and allowed me to understand it is what is on the inside that matters most not the figure or image I present when I am Michelle Jo ... and for that I say "Thank You to all my Special Sisters and Brothers here!" BIG HUG for all of You ...
#51
Guest_pinkundies1_*
Posted 01 June 2005 - 08:38 AM
i'm not too sure that lesbians have a stronger sense of community than gay or str8 men/ crossdressers etc. Maybe in some places they do, but its probably a different situation in each location, and is dependant on variables such as the cosmopolitan make up (read tolerance) of each given society, and the kind of personalities of those in minorities that inhabit each location (ie are there those who are prepared to get out there amongst it, do some organising, socialise whatever).
Thats not to say strong community bonds cannot be formed in intolerant climes though, i just watched the other day a documentary on gay history in australia and it was interesting the thriving clubs and cafes that existed in certain areas as far back as the '40s, when it was definitely not acceptable to be gay. One famous establishment in Melbourne's Prahran suburb was organised and run by a lesbian couple, but frequented by both men and women, demonstrating that even in the 50s, there wasn't so much a distinction between gay men/lesbians - they were all a part of the same close knit community.
In my city, melbourne, the inner urban area is very much cosmopolitan, laid back - where it is practically uncool not to be tolerant. In some areas, like St Kilda, basically anything goes - a gay or lesbian couple walking down the street holding hands doesnt even rate a look - it is normal. I have been in fashionable heterosexual bars in St Kilda and seen drag queens, and really nobody cares there- its like, if youve got a problem with it, then get over it, or go away. There are plenty of clubs/bars specifically catering to the gay community, but not exclusive to the gay community, where people can meet up and socialise, if thats what the ywant to do.
there are strong communities of gay people of all persuasions, particularly based around commercial road in prahran. Even at my university, there is a positive and visible gay community of both men and women, with social groups and free support services etc, and that is inclusive of C.Ds, T.S.s. whatever. its a good environment where people are accepted on their merits, rather than superficial judgement. people are made to feel included, and comfortable, and as such, a sense of community is felt amongst those that wish to take part.
however, this is all in contrast to the outer urban areas of melbourne. The further one travels out, it seems the more ignorance and redneck attitudes one will find. you wouldnt be able to get away with some of the things in the outer suburbs that you would closer in. I think people go into their shells when they are fearful of reaction/reprisal, and it is probably harder to encourage a sense of community among like minded people = essentially, a lot of people don't want to risk being an outcast. So they outwardly try to conform to the 'acceptable' standards of their surrounds. Understandable, when one considers that for some, there is a big price to be paid for being a 'poofter', 'faggot', 'queer', for some being known publicly as a crossdresser would be social death.
there is a club for crossdressers, transexuals etc (that is inclusive of partners in a hetero relationship) in melbourne called the Seahorse club - where they have functions and get togethers and so -on. Probably in most towns there is some kind of group or whatever that caters to C.Ds etc, where like minded people can get together just to socialise, or to provide some kind of support, or where one can dress up to the hilt and have some fun.
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Posted 01 June 2005 - 11:25 AM
QUOTE: from Michelle_Jo
PS: I do know web sites like this one has helped me improve my self-esteem and allowed me to understand it is what is on the inside that matters most not the figure or image I present when I am Michelle Jo ... and for that I say "Thank You to all my Special Sisters and Brothers here!" BIG HUG for all of You ...
Heyyyyy All my Sissy GirlFriends I to would like to send a Special Shot out, saying Thank You for helping me to feel good about my self. 
Sissy Girl
#53
Guest_Anna_*
Posted 06 June 2005 - 01:47 AM
Michelle_Jo, on Jun 1 2005, 03:28 AM, said: Was this fact supported by the study you read or did it even go into the real outcome for non-passable M2F TSs?
No, the study didn't really go there. It seemed really to be much more focussed on issues related specifically to F2Ms, as I recall. I may have misinterpreted or misremembered though. It has been quite some time since I last read it.
#54
Guest_Anna_*
Posted 06 June 2005 - 02:06 AM
pinkundies1, on Jun 1 2005, 05:33 AM, said: i'm not too sure that lesbians have a stronger sense of community than gay or str8 men/ crossdressers etc. Maybe in some places they do, but its probably a different situation in each location, and is dependant on variables such as the cosmopolitan make up (read tolerance) of each given society, and the kind of personalities of those in minorities that inhabit each location (ie are there those who are prepared to get out there amongst it, do some organising, socialise whatever).
Thats not to say strong community bonds cannot be formed in intolerant climes though, i just watched the other day a documentary on gay history in australia and it was interesting the thriving clubs and cafes that existed in certain areas as far back as the '40s, when it was definitely not acceptable to be gay.
I guess I don't necessarily identify clubs, bars or cafes with "community." Is a bath house a community? The back room of the stereotypical gay bar of the 60s or 70s?
What I was getting at has to do with at least my perception (and I recognize that might be all it is, perception) that lesbian "community" exists in both a much more open and oddly also "invisible" space than has male/gay community, at least during the early post-war period into the 80s, let's say. A lot happened (especially AIDS) that almost forced a community to invent itself among gay men, but that was long after lesbians had provided at least the beginnings of a model.
Just speculating, but I think the ability of women to form a lesbian community not entirely based on alcohol, drugs or club culture had a lot to do with both typical patterns of women's communication and the long-standing understanding that I think most women have (sometimes at a subconscious level) that they must make their progress and form their alliances at least somewhat covertly. Of course it doesn't hurt that most men are conditioned and/or just don't want to get too close to "girl stuff" for the cootie factor, the possible "taint" it might have on their standing amongst "the boys" or whatever.
In contrast, aside from sports teams and similar endeavors, men (gay or not) tend to avoid close contact, or the sharing of any kind of real confidences. A woman shares secrets because the more women know the real dirt on so-and-so, the safer she herself will be. A man tends to avoid sharing "intel" because it might just be the only thing that enables him to snag the job-the house-the car-the arm candy. I know these are huge generalizations, and there are certainly both exceptions and no shortage of special cases. But I think that general situation (and maybe even more it's perception as a truism) is at the core of a good deal of what (on average) separates women's social interactions from men's.
When the old joke about what a lesbian brings on a second date can be said with equal resonance for a gay man, I'll admit I'm mistaken.
#55
Guest_gamester_40_*
Posted 06 June 2005 - 11:40 AM
I'm not really interested in the semantics of this argument. If anything, I think that these groups aggregate for protection and to that extent they are "community" just as the same as any minority is when it is struggling to avoid being subsumed by the majority's values. I tend to agree, though, that the gay groups tend to be more overt than the lesbian ones and that this must reflect something innate to the differences between men and women.
As I said in a different forum, I believe that there is something in the psyche that drives sexual orientation so I don't believe that it is easy for men who are not transgender or in the process of 'switching' to put aside masculine attachments and develop truly female thinking patterns. (I don't think that it is important for them to do so, either.)
One observation I have made, though, it is easier for a female to be socially accepted by gay men than for males to be socially accepted by lesbian women. Try buying a drink in a lesbian pub!
#56
Guest_pinkundies1_*
Posted 08 June 2005 - 09:36 AM
Anna, on Jun 6 2005, 01:01 PM, said: I guess I don't necessarily identify clubs, bars or cafes with "community." Is a bath house a community? The back room of the stereotypical gay bar of the 60s or 70s?
What I was getting at has to do with at least my perception (and I recognize that might be all it is, perception) that lesbian "community" exists in both a much more open and oddly also "invisible" space than has male/gay community, at least during the early post-war period into the 80s, let's say. A lot happened (especially AIDS) that almost forced a community to invent itself among gay men, but that was long after lesbians had provided at least the beginnings of a model.
Just speculating, but I think the ability of women to form a lesbian community not entirely based on alcohol, drugs or club culture had a lot to do with both typical patterns of women's communication and the long-standing understanding that I think most women have (sometimes at a subconscious level) that they must make their progress and form their alliances at least somewhat covertly. Of course it doesn't hurt that most men are conditioned and/or just don't want to get too close to "girl stuff" for the cootie factor, the possible "taint" it might have on their standing amongst "the boys" or whatever.
In contrast, aside from sports teams and similar endeavors, men (gay or not) tend to avoid close contact, or the sharing of any kind of real confidences. A woman shares secrets because the more women know the real dirt on so-and-so, the safer she herself will be. A man tends to avoid sharing "intel" because it might just be the only thing that enables him to snag the job-the house-the car-the arm candy. I know these are huge generalizations, and there are certainly both exceptions and no shortage of special cases. But I think that general situation (and maybe even more it's perception as a truism) is at the core of a good deal of what (on average) separates women's social interactions from men's.
When the old joke about what a lesbian brings on a second date can be said with equal resonance for a gay man, I'll admit I'm mistaken.
i think you missed my point, anna. If you really understood what i was saying you would have realised that my point was that sometimes community can be stifled by the social constraints of the particular society in which it exists. Of course clubs and bars dont elicit 'community'. My point was that in a thriving, unrestrained environment, there will be open meeting places where like minded people can meet up and socialise without fear of reprisal or persecution. this is not the case in many societies. For example, a repressive society will repress interaction - how can there be a true sense of social community when people are afraid to be open - how is anyone supposed to meet people if you are a lone gay person - oh yeah, i forgot, you are supposed to just sneak around closed doors for the rest of your life, hanging out with a select few you have met over the internet or something, playing scrabble.
in the town that i live, cafes for example, are a great place to hang out, have a chat, enjoy the weather etc. Doesn't have to be a cafe, bar, can be anything, park gardens, movies, restaurants. Doesnt even have to be a public place, of course. Can be private homes, whatever - the bottom line is that there is a social network that lends itself to a community of friends - clubs, bars, cafes, etc where gay people can freely go to are but a simple example (symbol) of a society where it is permissable to do such things, not an example in itself of community - even at my university, as i said, there is a sense of community among gay students (both male/female). There is a culture of tolerance, open support and social networks.
such places can be a conduit to community, as opposed to a society that represses such things. You cannot have a true social community if everything is kept indoors.
This notion that lesbians across the board have a closer sense of community than gay men ( because they are female) is fuckin ridiculous, and cannot be applied in a general sense because there are so many variable situations that exist.
i don't know where you aquired your all-emcompassing knowledge of worldwide social interaction of gay and lesbian communities - i acknowledge you say you are generalising - but in my experience, the psyche of the gay male is infinitely different to that of the hetero male. You talk about 'men', but you fail to distinguish the differences between gay men and heterosexual men. A lot of gay men are so much like women in psyche, in feminine characteristics, in the way they gossip, mingle, 'share secrets', in so many ways that are different from the archetypal ' straight male'. Whereas there also instances of lesbian women who are 'man' like - every situation is unique.
Who says men don't share close confidences? Who says that gay men (or straight for that matter) avoid close contact? Who says that a gay male community might be based on ' alchohol, drugs and club culture'? Not only is that fuckin ridiculous, it is the height of ignorance. This is just a question, but where do you get these all assumptions? Is it personal opinion, or through personal experience?
My immediate boss at work is an overt lesbian, and i think we both share an understanding (or at least she can relate to the difficulties i have in the workplace). I don't actually think there is too much a distinction amongst gays/lesbians themselves (ok. there might be some exclusivity in clubs, whatever), but that was another of my original points - we are all gay, that is the connection.
look. it's not a big deal, but i know from experience that there are strong communities among gay men - gender is irrelevant, and to argue otherwise is fuckin ridiculous. By the way, the Seahorse club - from what i know - is not a 'club' in itself, in terms of nightclub, or even specific building. Rather a periodic gathering of like minded men who like to dress up like women. There is a website that determines what it is all about.
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